So what you are saying is that in Mexico, smaller high flyers were the norm, and El Canek was not a part of that norm, despite being impressivey agile. AND, judging by his history of easily being UWA's biggest draw, that he was the man who broke that mold. He, in a way, introduced and popularized a more American style of wrestling in one of the hardest territories to do so.
Sure, he was popular, but I don't really think he popularised an American style, he just popularised himself. Rey Mysterio is popular, but Lucha Libre is hardly popular now in North America. He popularized himself. If you go to a Lucha Libre show, you will see at least one person in his style, and this was true before he was around. Rare, yes, but he was hardly a ground breaker.
He was the biggest draw in a company built around him. The fact that they did build the company around him is noteworthy, but at the end of the day, he was the only person they could build it around, as all the biggest people were either abroad, in EMLL or on the brink of retirement.
Impressively agile? You said yourself that he was the same size as Jericho. If he is impressively agile, then Jericho is actually a cat. He was impressively strong, and of below average speed and agility for someone his size.
Horseshit. He could, and he did. He wrestled frequently in Japan, and drew huge crowds there as well. He could have gone anywhere, but UWA didn't want to lose him, and he was a mega-star down there, so why sell-out to a major American promotion?
He didn't "sell out" because he couldn't. Nobody in America would pay him big bucks, because he had an American style, as you said. the novelty factor of someone like Mil Mascaras wasn't there, because you would essentially be getting someone that looked like a midcarder in a mask.
The crowds in Japan could have been for his opponents as much as they were for him. He fought people like Inoki and Fujinami, and anyone, literally anyone could have drawn huge crowds for those matches.
See above. And he would have been huge in EMLL as well, just like he was in Japan when he did spots out there.
Big in EMLL, maybe, but he certainly wouldn't have been the number one guy for as long as he was. Towards the end of UWA, after AAA had come along, there was really nobody left, he was obviously going to be huge.
During the 80s, the majority of the big names like Santo, Blue Demon and Solitario had retired, and Masceras was abroad, so being the biggest in Mexico then wasn't the hard.
Canek stayed in UWA out of respect and loyalty for the promotion. Douglas stayed in ECW because Paul Heyman was the only man saintly enough to put up with Shane's shit attitude. There IS a difference. Please don't compare a legend like El Canek to that whiney bag of crap.
Canek stayed because he knew he'd be far bigger deal there then he would be anywhere else. The air was still sour between EMLL and UWA in the 80s, so if he got in there, he'd be lower down the card. for reasons I've already stated, nobody would give a shit about him in America, which leaves Japan.
Even if he was a popular as you say, he wouldn have been no bigger a deal in Japan as he was in Mexico. Loyalty could have come into play, as I'm sure business nous did, and perhaps the situation is a bit different to Douglas in that respect, but he essentially stayed in a smaller company because it was better for him to do so.
I like Santo, no issues there, but El Canek was as big a star as Santo. I'll never speak a bad word against Mil Mascaras. Mil is the only man whom Canek wrestled and never defeated.
Comparing Canek's popularity to Santo's is absolutely a non starter. Santo was a national hero, is regarded as one of the greatest Mexican sportsmen of all time, and was the star of films based around him overcoming evil - he was a living superhero. Santo and Blue Demon are the reasons why wrestling is so popular in Mexico.
Santo is considered to be one of the greatest sports men of all time, which considering he was not an actual competitor is incredible. Canek has nothing on him. Canek was one of the greatest Mexican wrestlers in his time, Santo is one of the greatest Mexicans ever, voted 8th greatest in a public poll, I believe.
No issues there. And when the time came for him to pass the title to a legitimate top-contender who would runwith the ball, Thesz agreed to put over Canek. Are you telling me that you doubt / refute Thesz' expertise here? Thesz was a recognized name, got the promotion going, and then lost to El Canek, because he was the future.
Thesz put over the best person for the promotion, granted, but there wasn't really much choice. By the time he dropped the title, he was 62 years old and wasn't appearing for the company very often.So, he decided to drop the title to somebody who was appearing in the company regularly. UWA wanted to push someone young, which gave them literally two options. They could give the title to Canek or Dos Caras. As Dos Caras regularly went abroad to be on shows with his brother, Mil Mascaras, Canek made more sense, so out of a list of 1 potential champions, Thesz and UWA chose Canek.
Did you really just bring the worthless title reign of Bob Backlund into the mix? Backlund was champ for a day, only won the title to advance the storyline between Bret and Owen (and get the belt on Diesel without making Bret look weak), and lost the match in 7 seconds. Don't compare Thesz to Backlund, nor Canek to Diesel.
Backlund actually won a match against the WWF champion to get the WWF title, against an actual champion. Thesz was given the title over a year after he drew with somebody. You tell me which is more convoluted. Beating Backlund, a former 5 year champion, so decisively made Diesel, who'd never been world champion look good.
Canek, who'd only held one belt, and that was a national one, beat Thesz, who'd been brought in to add prestige to the title. The situation isn't identical, and Backlund obviously isn't as big a deal as Thesz, but the idea is similar. Thesz had basically been retired for 13 years when he won the title, and was certainly not in any way shape or form the man he was.
The company got a big name in, so that they could forge a market for themselves, and when the time came he passed the title on to someone else. Canek was in the right place at the right time. If Masceras had stayed in Mexico, then you know full well he'd have been given it.
Prime? All of them. Home country? It varied. He did not really wrestle in the States, but in Japan he beat Japanese stars as well as American stars.
Prime, maybe. He beat Japanese stars in Japan, I'll give you that, but he never made any impact in America, where this tournament is being held.
But he won. And even still, when the time came for Owen to lose the mask, who did he lose it to, despite the fact that there are LOADS of UWA wrestlers in masks? That's right, El Canek.
So Canek, the man who the company was built around beat Owen, who was leaving the company. Owen gave his mask to Canek, but Owen was fuck all then. Canek has only won 4 masks ever. Rey Mysterio, who has spent the majority of his career outside Mexico has managed to win 4, Santo managed 16. He has won fewer mask matches than Shocker. Canek, obviously wasn't that big of a deal to his fellow luchadors.
Who gives a shit, he beat Andre! And Andre was as big a legend in Japan as he was in the US, so it's still an amazing feat! A 6 foot, 240 lb man going over the 2nd most dominant Superheavyweight in professional wrestling history!?
He beat Andre. In a match that meant a hell of a lot more to the promoters who regularly had Canek on their cards than it did to Andre and the WWF. Andre was defeated in Japan by Inoki too. Andre lost to Canek, but not because Canek was better than him, because it only mattered to Canek, so Andre did the right thing.
Yep, he beat Yokozuna back when Yoko was faster, more agile, and less one-sided but still a dominant athlete.
So dominant he was a midcarder in AWA when it was dying on his arse. Canek basically beat someone the size and style of Rikishi. Not that impressive really. Bret Hart, who is the same size as Canek, beat Yokozuna when he was almost 50% heavier.
And in a singles match...
Really? I stand corrected. Do you have a video of this? (I'm genuinely intrigued, not trying to catch you out).
How so? He beat some of the greatest international legends in history, despite being shorter and lighter than them. He's quite possibly the most versatile wrester in history, along side Sting. You cannot refute the fact that he has defeated some of the greatest of all time, and just because it didn't happen in the US, doesn't mean it did't happen! Please don't be so maddeningly ethnocentric. wrestling exists outside of the US!
I'd like to think that my knowledge of Lucha Libre would suggest I am aware that wrestling exists outside of America. My point is that his victories over big name Americans are completely nullified by the fact that their audience would never see the matches, so they were of no consequence. He beat big naem Japanese people in Japan, but he was by no means the first or last person to do this.
Luger didn't beat Yokozuna either. Except by count-out, and by cheating with a steel elbow. You know who did beat Yokozuna in his physical prime? El Canek. Hogan beat Yokozuna after a) 'Zuna had wrestled Bret Hart and won, and b) after Fuji hit Yoko in the eyes with salt. Yokozuna went on to effectively end Hulkamania in the WWE until Wrestlemania 18 - 11 and a half years.
Steroids and court cases ended Hulkamania in the WWF, and Eric Bischoff and Ted Turner put the final full stop on it. Yokozuna beat him in his last match, but the plan was definitely for Bret to do it, circumstances just dictated otherwise.
Yokozuna was in his physical prime from a human beingpoint of view, but certainly not from a wrestling point of view. He was far more dominant in the 90s than he was in the 80s. Bret Hart beat Yokozuna in his prime. Canek beat him before it.
Luger hip-tossed Yokozuna, and only got the slam with Yoko's help. Canek picked up Yokozuna, turned him in the air, and slammed him clean. AND, Canek is smaller than Luger, just as Kokina was a tad lighter than Yokozuna. It works out perfectly. Canek was the strongest high flying Lucha in history.
Everyone he'd faced. Everyone on my sig, he's slammed.
When did he slam Bam Bam Bigelow, again I'd like to see this match. I forgot that he'd beaten Vader, and I apologise.
And fast and agile for a guy who can bodyslam Andre and Yoko.
Maybe so, but this is missing the point. He is strong for an average sized guy, not fast for a big guy.
Are you comparing him to 5'7, 205 lb guys like Psicosis whose only decent ring work came against OTHER men under 240 lbs? Give me a Luchador who is a little slower, and can bring loads of power to the table as well. That's a little something called VERSATILITY.
He really isn't that versitile. Show me a decent match he had against someone lighter than him. As most luchadors are lightweight, it stands to reason that they'd have matches with bigger people than them. There are literally hundreds of smaller guys who've had decent matches with bigger ones. Shawn Michaels, A.J. and Chris Jericho off the tip of my finger, Canek stands out because he was supposed to be small and do backflips because he wore a mask.
The matches are in L.A. Same basic idea, so I'll consider this home court against everyone but Sting.
I'm not entirely familiar with L.A. demographics, but I assume you mean its Latino population rather than its proximity to Mexico. In which case, they'd surely back Eddie in equal measures?
And couldn't. Only Canek can stand up to them.
Over rated!!!??? Out of every mod and several regular members on the board, I am the ONLY ONE who put El Canek in their top 100. He's the most criminally under rated wrestler I've ever seen, and that must be corrected! And are you accusing the UWA of flaunting a superstar? I thought that was the point! Shit, WWF/E is really just the "McMahon Marketing Machine" anyway!And Canek is also HUGE in Japan.
How many mods put any luchadors in? He is the highest rated luchador who stayed in Mexico, and he is nowhere near the best one. You accused me of be ethnocentric earlier and Canek's position in the high esteem of North Americans is completely misplaced. He is not the greatest luchador of all time, but he is the biggest named one to wrestle in an American style, so he is seen as being good.
He is seen as being amazing because he was basically a heavyweight luchador, which doesn't normally exist. I'm annoyed that luchadors don't ever get a look in, and that is compounded when the only one that does is basically an American in a mask.
Yes the UWA flaunted him, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean he's good. He was the only person they had worth flaunting.
So you're saying he's the 4th or 5th best in the subregion, despite being seeded in the 50's in the WCW bracket? And that's over rated? I fail to see the logic.
I didn't mean in terms of the competition. I said he's in the top 5 by virtue of being in a weak bracket. Now that the bracket is almost full, I can confirm he is in my top 5. He is seeded 12th here, so I'm pushing him up 7 places. Saying that someone is better than Disco Inferno and that they are overrated is in no way a contradiction.
Honestly, Tastycles, I am just glad that you're on our side in the voting. But you've got to give more credit to a legend when it's due, as it clearly is now.
I'll say it now, he was one of the best in his time in Mexico, and I'd vote for him over a lot of people, it just annoys me that of all the luchadors this is the one you decided to push. He was good, but not that good. Solitario, Santo, Blue Demon, Masceras, Gory Guerrero, all of them were better than Canek.
Canek may have a chance to get somewhere if you are behind him, but if people vote for one person they've never heard of, it really really shouldn't be him. He is a unique talent in Mexican wrestling history with some big career wins, but I wouldn't call him a legend.
