reddevil69 said-
True, you never actually said he sucked...however, stating that his matches were boring is more or less the same thing. I have never heard anyone say something was boring in a good way. Generally if something/someone is boring it implies bad or...sucks. If you can explain to me how you can think all Flair's matches are boring but not that he sucks I will of course admit my error. Until then I stand by what I said.
Still, my point was that since you think his matches are boring because of the 'rest holds', and I pointed out that many other great wrestlers imployed the same moves...my question still stands, tho I will rephrase. Are all the pthers I mentioned just as boring as Flair?
Now it is my turn to admit a mistake. Rereading what I wrote I can see how it might seem I was saying Steamboat carried the match. I assure you that is not the case. I believe that, in most instances, both wrestlers in matches give to the match. Steamboat may have executed a perfect armdrag...but if Savage did not sell it well it would look bad. Likewise Savage could perform a great suplex but if Steamboat failed to go over smooth it would look bad. Both men equaly carried the match.
However, my point was that in this match that you would take over any of Flair's because Flair's are full of rest holds...there are lots of rest holds. Steamboat just happened, as the face, to perform the majority of the moves/holds. As I said, add the many( 19 ) near falls and suddenly your fifteen minutes of greatness doesn't seem so great. I still contend that it was as much to do with the event and build up as with the match. In otherwords, if the match happened in MSG at a house show, would it be considered as great?
Yes, it is. Why have Hogan out there then if Savage could do it alone. Every aspect of Savage's reign ties back to Hogan. He won the title because of Hogan. All the major fueds, except the one with Brown, were tied to Hogan. All the major events Savage competed at involved Hogan. And at his biggest title defence he drops it to Hogan. Sorry, but Savage's reign, from when Hogan dropped the belt to leave to when he came back and picked it back up, revolved around Hogan. To ignore that is truly revisionist.
I usually don't do this but...prove it.
I disagree. If Dibiase had succeeded in cheating the belt off of Hogan and getting it on his waist then I think he would have been the most hated man in wrestling. I believe people would have flocked to events to see him get beat. You may be right about the merchendice(sp), but Dibiase was a heel so traditionaly heels don't sell as much.
Plus, Vince back then always had a problem giving the title to heels. You would have to go from Superstar Graham all the way to Yokozuna before you found a credable heel champ. Dibiase was going to get it but it got changed, for better or worse. Hell, they didn't even give it to a heel for Hogan to take back; they just turned Savage heel for the last month or so.
No. You stop pretending it doesn't matter. Savage comes into the WWF in 85 and gets shots at Hogan as all heels did coming in. After failing to win title he is regulated to the midcard and given the ic title. He stays there until, while getting triple teamed by Honkytonk and the Hart Foundation, Elizabeth gets Hogan to make the save. The Mega Powers are born and only now is Savage in the main event. He gets the title, with Hogans interference. As I said, all his main events/fueds during his reign involve Hogan. His heel turn centers around Hogan. He drops the belt to Hogan. After that he is back to the midcard. Macho King anyone. He would pretty much remain a midcarder until WM8. Ask youself this, did you really care for Savage vs Rhodes at Summerslam 90? Or his mixed tag at WM 6? How about SS 89? He didnot even compete at SS 90. No, Savage's success, at leats in the 80s was directly linked to Hogan.
This my seem a little insulting, and i assure everyone I am not trying to flame, but I question whether you understand what revisionist implies. It implies that the WWE revises their history, in this case to remove Savage. As I have shown this is not the case. He appears in DVDs and is listed on the web site. Also he has appeared quite frequently on Classics on MSG. Sorry, he is there.
Now, yes I think there should be a DVD. In fact one was in production, title Randy Savage:Macho Madness. It was due for release this month and amazon was taking pre-orders. However, the plug was pulled, so we will have to wait. The reason he does not have a DVD or is in the WWE Hall of Fame is because of his real life fued with Vince. As long as these two do not get along I do not see a change in the near future. And honestly, if you were Vince, didn't need the money, and did not want to help or benifit a man you hate..would you release a dvd or invite him to the HoF?
Ok, before I get to the Flair DVD lets remember...
Flair wins the title at RR92. He is set to defend the title at WM8. The WWF holds a press conference to reveal the challenger. Five men are invited...Savage, Hogan, Justice, Piper and The Undertaker. And the challenger is...Hogan. Not Savage. But, they then have the storyline in which Justice turns on Hogan so they will meet at WM. By this time the Undertaker is set to meet Roberts in a grudge match and Piper is set to defend the IC title vs Hart so...Savage gets it by default. There was no one else. Technically, Piper would have been a better option since Flair and Piper fueded at the end of 91. So it is Savage. No real build up. No real heat. The heat that gets generated is by Flair involving Elizabeth. Match was great, buildup wasn't, match didn't even headline the card. That in mind...
Yes, the run and the match was talked about by Flair on his DVD. He comments about ho honored he was that Vince would put the belt on him and let him defend at WM. Savage is not mentioned because it was not needed. IT WAS A FLAIR DVD. They talked about Flair. However, I will offer up that they could have talked about the Flair/Savage fued from 95 in WCW. That was at least a true fued between the men. Ironically, that fued had its begin with...Hogan.
So...Savage gets title shot and win at WM8 in a story line based on Hogan. Savage then has no major defences save SS92 in which he loses to the Ultimate Warrior. He then drops belt back to Flair. Fast forward to 95. savage is brought in to WCW, in storyline, by Hogan. Has a fued with Flair as an off shoot of Flair's fued with...Hogan. Are you sure you can't see how Savage is eternally tied to Hogan?
Quite the opposite. Less then a year later Perfect is gone. He was better off as a heel, which is probably why it was left out. Not really that important...Except that Perfect fueded with Flair and sent him back to WCW. Other then that.
No hatred. Pure and simple hatred.
Lieutenant Commander Steamboat Ricky said-
first, Sammartino refuses to be inducted or have anything to do with the WWE. Second, are you implying Sammartino was not great?
